John McCain at the RNC

[Limnos]

FYI for those interested.

[BrooksBearLives]

I think he did a great job.

I disagree with a lot of what he had to say. He's shifted from "maverick" in the last 19 months to "party-line" on more than a couple major issues to get this far. I wonder how he's going to get back to being a maverick?

I hope he can, though. I LOVED McCain in 2000.

[Limnos]

I thought he did a really good job as well. I have to admit to falling hook line and sinker for his past. His story is inspiring and I appreciate what he has done for his country. Because of that I know he will fight in Washington to do what is best for us again today.

[Volunteer]

McCain is the real deal.

[BrooksBearLives]

Yeah, I know another centrist that promised to do exactly what McCain promised. A young man with lots of promise.

But he's leaving in a few months after doing a lot of what he said he'd do and some of what he said he wouldn't.

I'm going to see a larger tax cut under Obama. So will most of the people I care about. I'm voting for REAL change. Change more likely to happen under a congress that should be solidly Democratic.

[Texas Golfer]

I think he did a great job.

I disagree with a lot of what he had to say. He's shifted from "maverick" in the last 19 months to "party-line" on more than a couple major issues to get this far. I wonder how he's going to get back to being a maverick?

I hope he can, though. I LOVED McCain in 2000.

I disagree that he shifted from "maverick" status. He attacked Republicans tonight for letting America down. That is about as far from "party-line" as one can get.

He selected Palin to satisfy the base. McCain will continue to try to appeal to the moderates.

[Wacoso]

Yeah, I know another centrist that promised to do exactly what McCain promised. A young man with lots of promise.

But he's leaving in a few months after doing a lot of what he said he'd do and some of what he said he wouldn't.

I'm going to see a larger tax cut under Obama. So will most of the people I care about. I'm voting for REAL change. Change more likely to happen under a congress that should be solidly Democratic.

I'll likely go out of business if Obama is elected. As will many more businesses around the state. Can't carry the load of those that want but refuse to do.

I'll get taxed more on my business and my personal income. Will, Mikey, Adrienne, Scotty, Frankie T, and the rest will as well. We provide jobs for those McCain wants to help. Obama wants to give our work profit to them.

[Texas Golfer]

I thought he did a really good job as well. I have to admit to falling hook line and sinker for his past. His story is inspiring and I appreciate what he has done for his country. Because of that I know he will fight in Washington to do what is best for us again today.

Even Democrats have to admit that the McCain family loves this country like very few families have. They have over 100 years of serving this country starting with his grandfather.

McCain's grandfather
McCain's father
McCain
McCain's two sons (one just got back from Iraq and another leaves for Iraq on Christmas Day)
McCain's daughter

Even Palin's son is departing for Iraq next week.

[Texas Golfer]

I'm voting for REAL change. Change more likely to happen under a congress that should be solidly Democratic.

The thought of Obama/Biden/Pelosi/Reid brings many thoughts into my head but change is not one of them. It will be politics as usual.

[Texas Golfer]

I'll likely go out of business if Obama is elected. As will many more businesses around the state. Can't carry the load of those that want but refuse to do.

I'll get taxed more on my business and my personal income. Will, Mikey, Adrienne, Scotty, Frankie T, and the rest will as well. We provide jobs for those McCain wants to help. Obama wants to give our work profit to them.

I agree, W. Fortunately for me, I've sold all of my businesses but one but I will likely be force to put all of my employees on the unemployment line and close the doors should Obama get elected.

[BrooksBearLives]

I disagree that he shifted from "maverick" status. He attacked Republicans tonight for letting America down. That is about as far from "party-line" as one can get.

He selected Palin to satisfy the base. McCain will continue to try to appeal to the moderates.
It was a speech tonight after 18 months of pandering to his base. He's flip-flopped on the Bush taxes, drilling for oil and immigration JUST FOR STARTERS.

Now he's going to start being a maverick? Why change direction again?

I'll likely go out of business if Obama is elected. As will many more businesses around the state. Can't carry the load of those that want but refuse to do.

I'll get taxed more on my business and my personal income. Will, Mikey, Adrienne, Scotty, Frankie T, and the rest will as well. We provide jobs for those McCain wants to help. Obama wants to give our work profit to them.

W, where are you getting this?

[Wacoso]

It was a speech tonight after 18 months of pandering to his base. He's flip-flopped on the Bush taxes, drilling for oil and immigration JUST FOR STARTERS.

Now he's going to start being a maverick? Why change direction again?



W, where are you getting this?

Facts:
I pay 13% more taxes for my employees than you they see on their checks.
Obama will increase that amount and people don't see it, but that is where he's going to increase to pay for things we don't need.

I pay the insurance for my family and our manager.
Obama will increase the cost again, by raising my level of taxes and pushing me into a program I don't want to be in. Healthcare is not a birth right in this country. Eating isn't one as well. Neither is taking all the drugs you want and then standing in line to get food for free at the salvation army. There is no free lunch and I and many other business owners foot that bill for those that refuse to work.

The top 2% in this country pay 90% of all taxes. I'm not in that 2%, but it is about time some of the 98% start giving something back. The 38% that pay no taxes are killing this country. That 38% takes and takes and takes and gives nothing.

[BrooksBearLives]

Facts:
I pay 13% more taxes for my employees than you they see on their checks.
Obama will increase that amount and people don't see it, but that is where he's going to increase to pay for things we don't need.

I pay the insurance for my family and our manager.
Obama will increase the cost again, by raising my level of taxes and pushing me into a program I don't want to be in. Healthcare is not a birth right in this country. Eating isn't one as well. Neither is taking all the drugs you want and then standing in line to get food for free at the salvation army. There is no free lunch and I and many other business owners foot that bill for those that refuse to work.

The top 2% in this country pay 90% of all taxes. I'm not in that 2%, but it is about time some of the 98% start giving something back. The 38% that pay no taxes are killing this country. That 38% takes and takes and takes and gives nothing.

First of all, the 38% number is wrong. But of course you'd have to know that coming from a former Bush stooge in a WSJ (Rupert Murdoch owned paper).

Second of all, your income taxes are likely to actually fall under an Obama administration (unless you make more than $150K, in which case it won't change unless you make more than $250K)... and if you make more than 250K, then God bless you, you'd be an ***** to vote for Obama.

Third of all, Obama wants to solve the healthcare problem by allowing people to enroll in the Medicare/medicaide program. You can take your monies out of your current plan and put into the government's. I don't see how that would increase the cost of your current plan. Wouldn't the increased competition drive the cost of your plan down? I thought that's what a competitive market did?

[Wacoso]

First of all, the 38% number is wrong. But of course you'd have to know that coming from a former Bush stooge in a WSJ (Rupert Murdoch owned paper).

Second of all, your income taxes are likely to actually fall under an Obama administration (unless you make more than $150K, in which case it won't change unless you make more than $250K)... and if you make more than 250K, then God bless you, you'd be an ***** to vote for Obama.

Third of all, Obama wants to solve the healthcare problem by allowing people to enroll in the Medicare/medicaide program. You can take your monies out of your current plan and put into the government's. I don't see how that would increase the cost of your current plan. Wouldn't the increased competition drive the cost of your plan down? I thought that's what a competitive market did?

When BC takes our child into the Dr, she is one of the few with insurance. Guess who is footing the bill? This island has close to 50% that pay no taxes.

My taxes will increase under Obama. I will get an increase in business tax. I will get an increase on my income tax. I will get an increase on my social security tax. I will get an increase on my employment tax. You can't cut taxes, put in new programs that cost more money, and not pass the burden to someone else. Business owners are that someone else.

I don't want medicaid, I don't want medicare, I want those people to foot their own bill. Again, it is not a birth right for anyone to get healthcare. I agree with McCain that these programs were designed for the 1950's and nobody has changed them. Seeing people draw a check, get Section 8 housing, free food, etc... off my hard work is disheartening and needs to change.

We cannot continue on the path of entitlement and free handouts to those that are able but not willing to provide for themselves. And if you don't see the difference, then I'm not sure what to say, but I will drive you down 33rd to Harborside to see government housing, many of those people not working when employment is available all over this island, and the lines for free food and working for it in different missions on the island.

[Wacoso]

and prove to me the 38% is wrong. I've seen it higher.

[Diehard]

During 2006, Tax Foundation economists estimate that roughly 43.4 million tax returns, representing 91 million individuals, will face a zero or negative tax liability. That's out of a total of 136 million federal tax returns that will be filed. Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1410.html

[Wacoso]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1410.html
Thank you. Imagine that, the conservative was actually being conservative on his numbers. Those 41% need to kick in a little to the pie instead of taking the biggest slice.

[BearChick]

Moving my post over here from the Palin thread because it is more relevant to this discussion.

Kay Bailey has a great record and a lot of experience. She would have made a better VP.

And I think you're wrong about the Obama Campaign. They have an actual list of things they want accomplish. An actual list of policies past "extend the Bush tax cuts." I don't think McCain can claim that. And that's frustrating for me because I really want to weigh what's right for the country and best for me.

Oh, and are you REALLY trying to say that Kay Bailey Hutchison wouldn't take the VP if offered to her? You're flipping crazy.

Kay Bailey does have a great record and a lot of experience and would have made a great VP. She was high up on my list, which oddly, McCain didn't call me for. But the fact still is that the 2008 Republican party does NOT put a pro-choice VP up for nomination. Especially not when the evangelical wing of the party was already just so-so about McCain. If the GOP would allow a pro-choice VP, Lieberman would have gotten the invitation, I think, before KBH.

And she probably would take it if it were offered to her, but she' s been pretty outspoken about the fact that her two young daughters are starting school and she wants to move back home--and have just one home, not one in Texas and one in DC--and be around and not traveling as much when they get into school. She is also all but assured election as the governor of our lovely state in the next election, thereby propelling and extending her political career. She would not necessarily be guaranteed election as VP, which would certainly hurt her gubernatorial chances, were she to lose the McCain election then come back to run for governor.

Now, let's get to Obama's list of things he wants to accomplish. In his years as a United States Senator, Barack Obama has given lots of lofty speeches with lots of great ideas. In fact, he's pretty much been campaigning for president since he got to Washington. Which hasn't left him much time to be a Senator, I guess. He's not known for ANY legislation, to my knowledge hasn't been the lead sponsor on any major bills, votes present more than he votes yes or no (Seriously? The people of Illinois deserve someone who can at least make a decision, don't they, or do they just like representation in vain. If you don't vote yes or no, you're as good as a bump on a log. At least give your constituents the courtesy of making a decision. He's the modern version of taxation without representation.)

Let's take healthcare, for an example, since you've mentioned it before.

I don't want Barack Obama's healthcare plan. I'm not into socialism. I am a small business owner and guess what? I have to sacrifice other things and pay through the nose, but I can afford my own healthcare that I choose. Note that I said sacrifice and pay. I pay almost $700 a month for our healthcare, and I have a $10000 worth of deductibles between the two policies. So believe me, I pay. But believe me when I say I cannot afford Barack Obama's state-run healthcare plan.

His plan is to tax small business owners to pay for the socialist healthcare plan. BBL, do you want to see us out of business? I'm serious. We could not run our business with added cost of paying taxes for healthcare for employees who don't even work the whole darned year. But we'd have to. Small business is the lifeblood of America. We're the ones who innovate, who fill the needs in the community, and who employ the majority of folks in America. But we cannot operate with undue burden put on us by the government. If you think the economy's in the tank now, wait until small business owners get squeezed by expenses AND more taxes and government regulations.

And if the Democrats were so amazing at doing things past extending the Bush tax cuts, then Senator Obama, who is a member of the Democratic majority in the legislative branch, and his colleagues would have done one blankety-blank thing in the last TWO YEARS. The Democrats came to power talking about repudiating Bush and changing things. In the past two years, all I have heard is big words out of Nancy Pelosi with not a darned thing to back it up. What legislation have they passed to change anything? The only change I'm seeing from the Democratic party is the change leaving my pocketbook. They have been a complete bunch of do-nothings the last two years, which I guess is fitting, since their rising star votes "present" more than "yes" or "no"--the ultimate form of do-nothing. (And my criticism on inaction is not just limited to Dems. I think Rick Perry has done NOTHING in Texas except buy bottles of Breck for his hair for 8 years and I can't wait to see him go.)

John McCain has sponsored bi-partisan legislation. John McCain has sponsored LANDMARK legislation. John McCain has bucked his party's leadership when necessary to do what he felt was the right thing. John McCain understands our military. John McCain has foreign policy experience. There's a whole list of issues on www.johnmccain.com if you need to see what his plans are (just like I'm sure Barack Obama has a similar list on his site.) Don't give me the cop-out that he doesn't have a plan. He does, and it's plain as day on his website. And he has the track record of showing up and getting the work done. Obama has not shown that he can show up and get it done, sorry, but he hasn't. His record as a legislator is short and light.

In his speech last night, especially at the end when talking about his military experience and his time as a "guest" of the North Vietnamese, I was so grateful that we have Americans like John McCain (and your brother, who I sense has the same call to honor and duty and America above all). And then I thought of the contrast between that and the Obamas, where Michelle Obama basically says she has been disappointed in her country until Barack ran for president.

And I thanked God that I had someone like John McCain to vote for. There isn't ever a perfect candidate in any election, and there will likely be more promises left than kept, because that's how politics works. But John McCain has more than fancy words and lofty speeches. He has served and sacrificed and bled for this country and he has spent more than two decades in government with a track record of reaching out when it was necessary and doing the right thing, not necessarily toeing the party line when it's necessary.

We need a LEADER in Washington who has proven he can be a leader. Any speechwriter can write fancy words--I know; I've been a speechwriter--and most people can read from a teleprompter. My vote's going to the guy who walks the walk. Anyone can talk the talk, and when he had the opportunity to put together a legislative record during his term in the senate, Barack Obama chose to talk (about becoming president, most often) instead of showing up and doing the hard work. He did enough to get by, but honestly, America deserves more. I'm not saying John McCain is perfect, but he's earned my vote.

[Bexar Fan]

Has Obama explained how he intends to handle all those in the health insurance business who will surely lose their incomes if a government funded program replaces the insurance they currently administer?

Has he explained what a virtual takeover of a fair sized segment of the economy will do to confidence in the remainder of the economy?

And lastly has Obama explained how he will overcome the constitutional obstacles to what amounts to a government takeover of an industry?

If the argument is that it will just be an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid, the question then is "Expansion to what extent?". They are virtually broke to begin with.

BC and W are correct in their assessment, IMO.

[BearChick]

Third of all, Obama wants to solve the healthcare problem by allowing people to enroll in the Medicare/medicaide program. You can take your monies out of your current plan and put into the government's. I don't see how that would increase the cost of your current plan. Wouldn't the increased competition drive the cost of your plan down? I thought that's what a competitive market did?

You do know that Medicare/Medicaid coverage is some of the worst around, right? How does this make the problem solved? Red tape abounds in the Mediplans. You should see the hoops they make doctors jump through--moreso than private insurers. Not only that, they're notorious for fraud and overpayment. Medicare/Medicaid need SERIOUS overhauling before they should be opened up to anyone else, and for all their talk about healthcare since oh...1992? I have yet to see the Democrats get any meaningful healthcare reform passed--or to even get something that can earn any small kind of bipartisan support.

[nein51]

Did Obama ever put a dollar number to his health care plan? If so, has anyone seen it?

[Wacoso]

Did Obama ever put a dollar number to his health care plan? If so, has anyone seen it?

It's FREE!!!! FREE!!!!




to all the freeloaders.

[Chief'sbear]

Yeah, I know another centrist that promised to do exactly what McCain promised. A young man with lots of promise.

But he's leaving in a few months after doing a lot of what he said he'd do and some of what he said he wouldn't.

I'm going to see a larger tax cut under Obama. So will most of the people I care about. I'm voting for REAL change. Change more likely to happen under a congress that should be solidly Democratic.

Are you kidding me? The only way is if you make under $25k. Obama's taxes will be much higher than they are right now. If you are thinking they will be lower you are delusional.

:confused1:

(did I mention I am a tax professional?)

[BrooksBearLives]

Has Obama explained how he intends to handle all those in the health insurance business who will surely lose their incomes if a government funded program replaces the insurance they currently administer?

Has he explained what a virtual takeover of a fair sized segment of the economy will do to confidence in the remainder of the economy?

And lastly has Obama explained how he will overcome the constitutional obstacles to what amounts to a government takeover of an industry?

If the argument is that it will just be an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid, the question then is "Expansion to what extent?". They are virtually broke to begin with.

BC and W are correct in their assessment, IMO.

Alright... I'm seeing a lot of "this is what's going to happens" when there has been very little, if any, research.

BC and W, you're NOT going to go out of business if Obama is elected. I do not believe that. I'm not even sure where you're getting this (you haven't provided one link or source).

Of all the taxes increased under ANY of the plans, not ONE is going to rise above the Clinton era taxes. That was from a WSJ article I read about a year ago. And the Clinton years were pretty good, especially compared to today's environment.

The sky is not falling.

[Bexar Fan]

Alright... I'm seeing a lot of "this is what's going to happens" when there has been very little, if any, research.

BC and W, you're NOT going to go out of business if Obama is elected. I do not believe that. I'm not even sure where you're getting this (you haven't provided one link or source).

Of all the taxes increased under ANY of the plans, not ONE is going to rise above the Clinton era taxes. That was from a WSJ article I read about a year ago. And the Clinton years were pretty good, especially compared to today's environment.

The sky is not falling.
BBL, you quoted my post and then failed to answer any of my questions as you seemed to address your comments to BC and W. You also imply or infer (I never could keep them straight) that I am uninformed.

Perhaps I misunderstood though, and you simply meant to say that you don't like my questions but are too ill-inform to answer them.

[Wacoso]

Ok BBL,

Lay it out for me. How will me paying more taxes benefit me? How will it benefit my business?

[BrooksBearLives]

Are you kidding me? The only way is if you make under $25k. Obama's taxes will be much higher than they are right now. If you are thinking they will be lower you are delusional.

:confused1:

(did I mention I am a tax professional?)

I got it directly from a CNNmoney.com article. The average family is going to see a 5% decrease in total taxation or approximately $2000 more a year. Under the McCain tax plan, things will roughly stay the same as they are with a larger cut going to some of the higher brackets.

He's just promising to cut "pork" spending in the face of an infrastructure BADLY in need of increased funding.

And I misspoke earlier. It's not the run of the mill medicare/medicaid program that Obama wants to expand but the government employee insurance plan. His plan. It comes with incentives for providing preventative healthcare, which could cut overall expenses from 10-20% from some estimates I've seen.

This medicare/medicaid program spends only around 2% on overhead/tertiary expenses compared to around 24% spent on overhead/tertiary expenses by the average insurance company.

There's few things that the government does that's more efficient. This is one of them. But also, the way it is, as a voluntary option, it is NOT socialized healthcare. It's competition. I figured free-market people would be open to that.

Man, I really don't have time to spend like this on here.

[Bexar Fan]

The average American pays $40,000 in taxes?

[BrooksBearLives]

The average American pays $40,000 in taxes?

*total taxation

including numerous tax breaks, right-to-work breaks, tax credits for healthcare monies spent, etc.

[Bexar Fan]

I think you need to check your facts. $40K is closer to the average income than the average tax.

[Wacoso]

That 5% number is hogwash. So you're getting 2000 back which is 40K a year. Those of us above 40K a year for a family get more tax. Again, this is showing you haven't done the math to realize that is 10 an hour for two people working 40 a week. So again. the money goes to those not putting anything into the system.

[BrooksBearLives]

The average American pays $40,000 in taxes?

Wait... what are you talking about? Where did you get 40K?

Oh... wait. I'll find the article... wait a sec.

[BrooksBearLives]

Found a neat article on what the two propose to do for small businesses.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/news/0806/gallery.election_issues/20.html

[BrooksBearLives]

http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/news/2008/09/04/news.090408.sahadi.cnnmoney

They talk about it about a minute in.

[tommie]

When BC takes our child into the Dr, she is one of the few with insurance. Guess who is footing the bill? This island has close to 50% that pay no taxes.

My taxes will increase under Obama. I will get an increase in business tax. I will get an increase on my income tax. I will get an increase on my social security tax. I will get an increase on my employment tax. You can't cut taxes, put in new programs that cost more money, and not pass the burden to someone else. Business owners are that someone else.

I don't want medicaid, I don't want medicare, I want those people to foot their own bill. Again, it is not a birth right for anyone to get healthcare. I agree with McCain that these programs were designed for the 1950's and nobody has changed them. Seeing people draw a check, get Section 8 housing, free food, etc... off my hard work is disheartening and needs to change.

We cannot continue on the path of entitlement and free handouts to those that are able but not willing to provide for themselves. And if you don't see the difference, then I'm not sure what to say, but I will drive you down 33rd to Harborside to see government housing, many of those people not working when employment is available all over this island, and the lines for free food and working for it in different missions on the island.

So many of the problem you discuss are because of the state and locals. That who we all should fear.

[Chief'sbear]

The likelihood of capital gains tax rates being further reduced is pretty small. And historically, those rates are a determination of how much people invest both privately, and in their businesses. 15% is pretty low.

I can assure you when these rates go up, the economy as a whole will slow down further. Its just been proven time after time.

[Chief'sbear]

So many of the problem you discuss are because of the state and locals. That who we all should fear.

Texas has no state income tax for individuals. And they just reworked the franchise tax system. The new tax system actually helped the really small guys in business. There is a small business exemption: old law-$150k; new law-$300k. If you gross under either of those, you owe no tax. Also, you could make more and owe no tax, but its irrelevant to this discussion.

We are talking fed taxes. They will go up for virtually everyone on this board if Obama gets elected.

But if you want to help support government increases, that's your business.

;)

[BearChick]

From BBL's CNN article on small business:

John McCain

Allow small businesses first-year expensing of new equipment and technology purchases.

Works for me. We do already claim depreciation on equipment, but this would be a nice offset when you actually make the investment

· Make R&D tax credit permanent, but change formula.

Don't think this affects us, as we don't do R&D. I don't know what the formula is now, so I can't comment as to the efficacy for others.

· Issue tax credits to allow individuals to purchase personal, portable health insurance that can move with them from job to job.

As long as I'm not being taxed to provide the coverage or being charged to fund the tax credits, I'm fine with that. We have small group coverage funded 100% by the employee, so this would not affect my family's health care burden as a small business owner, however. We will continue to have small group coverage because in the state of Texas, individual insurance carriers are not required to provide maternity coverage, and obviously, that is a deal breaker in coverage for us.

· Reduce the corporate income tax rate to 25% from 35%.

Fan-stinkin'-tastic. Obviously not paying 10% in taxes is huge for an operation with a thin margin, like ours.

· Cut estate tax rate to 15% and increase exemption to $5 million.

May affect me at some point, but not right now. Would be good for folks inheriting small businesses, I suppose.

Barack Obama:

· Issue a $500 credit to self-employed small business owners to offset the self-employment tax.

Technically doesn't affect us as the ownership paperwork is in my dad's name. We are significant shareholders and actual employees on the payroll. We have part ownership through stock, but the name on the paperwork is my dad's.

· Exempt investors from the capital gains tax on their investments in small businesses and startups if they made their investment when a small company was valued below a certain threshold. That threshold has yet to be defined.

Hard to say without the threshold being defined. Also doesn't affect me as a current small businessperson because my company is already established. I don't see this being retroactively applied to my taxes today because of the value of my company when I started. Geared to investors, not current owners.

· Increase the minimum wage and index the rate to inflation to ensure that it rises every year.

Already had to do that this year and it hurt. Had to basically cut one employee position to pay for the wage increase to everyone else. My dad works for a non-profit and they are going to take a HUGE hit this year for having to do this. I understand and support people being paid a respectful wage. I do not support annual mandatory minimum wage increases. I'll be down to just Wacoso and I working in about 3 years.

· Offer a 50% refundable credit for employee health insurance premiums paid by the employer.

Our small group plan is 100% self funded because as a company right now, we can't afford to fund it. Where does the money for the 50% refundable credit come from? My guess is that somewhere, the employer is going to fund it. I haven't seen anything about corporate tax rate, like McCain, and based on things Obama has said, I see corporate tax rates going up.

· Require all employers to automatically enroll workers in 401(k)s or IRAs that they can pay into through payroll deductions.

401(k)s and IRAs have administrative costs attached to them, which will obviously be funded by the employer, plus the indirect costs of the HR person (in our case, me) who will have to put this on their plate. Anyone can set up a IRA at their local bank and have money put in it if they want to. Employers shouldn't have to roll out the red carpet. Will Obama expect employers to contribute to it, too, at some point?

· Freeze estate tax rate at 45% and increase exemption to $3.5 million.

See my response to McCain above. McCain obviously provides a better package on this bullet point, though.


What affects me the most, as someone in business already today, is McCain lowering the corporate tax rate and allowing expensing of new equipment. And, as I said above, the estate tax will affect me in the future and McCain has the better numbers there.

Obama has more bullet points, but a less attractive package to the employer. It may be more attractive to a hourly pay employee, but not to a small business owner.

[Chief'sbear]

My analysis in green.

From BBL's CNN article on small business:

John McCain

Allow small businesses first-year expensing of new equipment and technology purchases. Already do this. Sec 179 depr up to $110k

Works for me. We do already claim depreciation on equipment, but this would be a nice offset when you actually make the investment

· Make R&D tax credit permanent, but change formula. Formula needs change. Outdated.

Don't think this affects us, as we don't do R&D. I don't know what the formula is now, so I can't comment as to the efficacy for others.

· Issue tax credits to allow individuals to purchase personal, portable health insurance that can move with them from job to job.We already have self-employed health insur deduct, need for everyone

As long as I'm not being taxed to provide the coverage or being charged to fund the tax credits, I'm fine with that. We have small group coverage funded 100% by the employee, so this would not affect my family's health care burden as a small business owner, however. We will continue to have small group coverage because in the state of Texas, individual insurance carriers are not required to provide maternity coverage, and obviously, that is a deal breaker in coverage for us.

· Reduce the corporate income tax rate to 25% from 35%.I just don't see how they could do it. Maybe.

Fan-stinkin'-tastic. Obviously not paying 10% in taxes is huge for an operation with a thin margin, like ours.

· Cut estate tax rate to 15% and increase exemption to $5 million. This would be awesome. Presently its a big double taxation and is your reward for your life of hard work.

May affect me at some point, but not right now. Would be good for folks inheriting small businesses, I suppose.

Barack Obama:

· Issue a $500 credit to self-employed small business owners to offset the self-employment tax. Oh boy, This doesn't help much when are paying $6-10k.

Technically doesn't affect us as the ownership paperwork is in my dad's name. We are significant shareholders and actual employees on the payroll. We have part ownership through stock, but the name on the paperwork is my dad's.

· Exempt investors from the capital gains tax on their investments in small businesses and startups if they made their investment when a small company was valued below a certain threshold. That threshold has yet to be defined. All fluff, no substance. This is already sortof covered in sec 1244 stock treatment (cap gain, but ordinary loss) (must be a sec 1244 corp to when started).

Hard to say without the threshold being defined. Also doesn't affect me as a current small businessperson because my company is already established. I don't see this being retroactively applied to my taxes today because of the value of my company when I started. Geared to investors, not current owners.

· Increase the minimum wage and index the rate to inflation to ensure that it rises every year. Oh boy. My kids will be thrilled. This hurts the little guys more than anyone.

Already had to do that this year and it hurt. Had to basically cut one employee position to pay for the wage increase to everyone else. My dad works for a non-profit and they are going to take a HUGE hit this year for having to do this. I understand and support people being paid a respectful wage. I do not support annual mandatory minimum wage increases. I'll be down to just Wacoso and I working in about 3 years.

· Offer a 50% refundable credit for employee health insurance premiums paid by the employer. This might actually be his best proposal.

Our small group plan is 100% self funded because as a company right now, we can't afford to fund it. Where does the money for the 50% refundable credit come from? My guess is that somewhere, the employer is going to fund it. I haven't seen anything about corporate tax rate, like McCain, and based on things Obama has said, I see corporate tax rates going up.

· Require all employers to automatically enroll workers in 401(k)s or IRAs that they can pay into through payroll deductions.What is this Russia? Communism didn't work, remember?

401(k)s and IRAs have administrative costs attached to them, which will obviously be funded by the employer, plus the indirect costs of the HR person (in our case, me) who will have to put this on their plate. Anyone can set up a IRA at their local bank and have money put in it if they want to. Employers shouldn't have to roll out the red carpet. Will Obama expect employers to contribute to it, too, at some point?

· Freeze estate tax rate at 45% and increase exemption to $3.5 million. Not as good as McCain's, but at least its a step in the right direction.

See my response to McCain above. McCain obviously provides a better package on this bullet point, though.


What affects me the most, as someone in business already today, is McCain lowering the corporate tax rate and allowing expensing of new equipment. And, as I said above, the estate tax will affect me in the future and McCain has the better numbers there.

Obama has more bullet points, but a less attractive package to the employer. It may be more attractive to a hourly pay employee, but not to a small business owner. I agree BC. Get ready for major pain for your little business on the island.

[tommie]

Texas has no state income tax for individuals. And they just reworked the franchise tax system. The new tax system actually helped the really small guys in business. There is a small business exemption: old law-$150k; new law-$300k. If you gross under either of those, you owe no tax. Also, you could make more and owe no tax, but its irrelevant to this discussion.

We are talking fed taxes. They will go up for virtually everyone on this board if Obama gets elected.

But if you want to help support government increases, that's your business.

;)

Wacoso is a small business. He's also discussing uninsured which gets covered at the county level, usually paid from sales and property taxes.

[Texas Golfer]

W, where are you getting this?

Have you not seen Obama's tax increase plan for small businesses?

[Texas Golfer]

First of all, the 38% number is wrong. But of course you'd have to know that coming from a former Bush stooge in a WSJ (Rupert Murdoch owned paper).

Second of all, your income taxes are likely to actually fall under an Obama administration (unless you make more than $150K, in which case it won't change unless you make more than $250K)... and if you make more than 250K, then God bless you, you'd be an ***** to vote for Obama.

Third of all, Obama wants to solve the healthcare problem by allowing people to enroll in the Medicare/medicaide program. You can take your monies out of your current plan and put into the government's. I don't see how that would increase the cost of your current plan. Wouldn't the increased competition drive the cost of your plan down? I thought that's what a competitive market did?

You are referring to individual income. W and I are talking about the additional taxes he intends to access to small businesses.

[Texas Golfer]

I got it directly from a CNNmoney.com article. The average family is going to see a 5% decrease in total taxation or approximately $2000 more a year. Under the McCain tax plan, things will roughly stay the same as they are with a larger cut going to some of the higher brackets.

He's just promising to cut "pork" spending in the face of an infrastructure BADLY in need of increased funding.

And I misspoke earlier. It's not the run of the mill medicare/medicaid program that Obama wants to expand but the government employee insurance plan. His plan. It comes with incentives for providing preventative healthcare, which could cut overall expenses from 10-20% from some estimates I've seen.

This medicare/medicaid program spends only around 2% on overhead/tertiary expenses compared to around 24% spent on overhead/tertiary expenses by the average insurance company.

There's few things that the government does that's more efficient. This is one of them. But also, the way it is, as a voluntary option, it is NOT socialized healthcare. It's competition. I figured free-market people would be open to that.

Man, I really don't have time to spend like this on here.

Have you not ever wondered why the Obama camp refuses to call it a tax cut? They always say "tax relief". That's because they are going to relieve you of your money in taxes.

[Texas Golfer]

The average American pays $40,000 in taxes?

I pay more than that but I'm far from average.

[Texas Golfer]

· Increase the minimum wage and index the rate to inflation to ensure that it rises every year.

· Offer a 50% refundable credit for employee health insurance premiums paid by the employer.

· Require all employers to automatically enroll workers in 401(k)s or IRAs that they can pay into through payroll deductions.


Increase minimum wage and index annually? Depending on what the minimum is set on and how much the increase is, it could hurt small business considerably.

Health insurance PAID BY THE EMPLOYER on top of increasing their wages could put many small businesses out of business.

Require? REQUIRE? The government is going to force me to provide them with a retirement plan? Is this my business or is this a government subsidized business? It's my business and the government shouldn't be allowed to tell my how to run it as long as it's a safe environment.

[quash]

Chief, appreciate the tax analysis.

Chief and TG: As to the IRA do you read that as requiring the employer to pay anything at all? I see "set up" as in "offer your employees the chance to participate by contributing from each paycheck". If an employer wants to match they can, as they do now. But I don't see any mandated payments from employers.

BC, I know you'll have to do a little work to set one up, even if no employee ever takes advantage of it. But retirement plans can be a great incentive for employee retention. We have a dinky 3 man law firm with 3 secretaries: 21 years, 19 years and 10 years with the firm. No other firm like ours has anything like that kind of loyalty. All we have is a SEP plan, one annual payment, easily administered. OK, we do have the occasional office trip, but boss gets a tax break for that, too. ;-)

[BearChick]

BC, I know you'll have to do a little work to set one up, even if no employee ever takes advantage of it. But retirement plans can be a great incentive for employee retention. We have a dinky 3 man law firm with 3 secretaries: 21 years, 19 years and 10 years with the firm. No other firm like ours has anything like that kind of loyalty. All we have is a SEP plan, one annual payment, easily administered. OK, we do have the occasional office trip, but boss gets a tax break for that, too. ;-)

I run a seasonal business, staffed 7 months a year, mostly by high school and college students. I hire new folks every year, and have only had one person work for me every year we've been open (she's our only full-time employee now). I had 2 of my students from last year come back. Not sure who, if any, will be back next year. We're a different kind of animal. We told our one employee that we'd help her get one set up if she wanted it, but it doesn't make sense for the government to mandate that I have one for everyone because I only have part-time seasonal help.

[nein51]

quash, wait until the Employee Free Choice Act gets signed...and those small businesses start to unionize.

Praise God for checks and balances.

[Texas Golfer]

Chief, appreciate the tax analysis.

Chief and TG: As to the IRA do you read that as requiring the employer to pay anything at all? I see "set up" as in "offer your employees the chance to participate by contributing from each paycheck". If an employer wants to match they can, as they do now. But I don't see any mandated payments from employers.

Why should I, as an employer, be required to do anything? If the employee wants a 401(k) or IRA, why can't they set their own plan for paying for it? Is Obama saying the employee may not be disciplined enough to do it and keep it going? If so, why should it be my responsibility to take care of their retirement needs?

[quash]

Why should I, as an employer, be required to do anything? If the employee wants a 401(k) or IRA, why can't they set their own plan for paying for it? Is Obama saying the employee may not be disciplined enough to do it and keep it going? If so, why should it be my responsibility to take care of their retirement needs?

In reality employers have to do things about paychecks: I look at my gross and then watch the deducts and I wish I could keep more of that stuff. If I had to w/hold for child support it would get even worse.

But employers would have to cooperate in any event if the employee set up his own IRA or w/e and just wanted a direct deduct from his paycheck.

Maybe I'm missing out on the problem b/c I have never been an employer.

[BearChick]

In reality employers have to do things about paychecks: I look at my gross and then watch the deducts and I wish I could keep more of that stuff. If I had to w/hold for child support it would get even worse.

But employers would have to cooperate in any event if the employee set up his own IRA or w/e and just wanted a direct deduct from his paycheck.

Maybe I'm missing out on the problem b/c I have never been an employer.

Well, for starters, I'd have to pay an administration fee for the IRA if it was set up through the company. I can't pass that on to the employee. Also, I use a payroll service. I'm charged for that. No big deal, but every other special thing that gets done, including a direct deposit, has a fee. So I'm already paying a fee to have the check cut or direct deposited. If there was then a direct deduction from the check to the IRA account, I'd incur a fee on that.

It probably seems small, but I'm a very small business with a small margin of superfluous stuff--especially since we're still very new. All those little things really do add up. Every year, we go back through our budget and look at where we can cut things like that, not add them.

[nein51]

BC, your payroll service charges you for direct deposit? Cutting payroll checks is incredibly expensive, DD is FAR cheaper to them. Seems odd that they are charging you for it.

[Texas Golfer]

In reality employers have to do things about paychecks: I look at my gross and then watch the deducts and I wish I could keep more of that stuff. If I had to w/hold for child support it would get even worse.

But employers would have to cooperate in any event if the employee set up his own IRA or w/e and just wanted a direct deduct from his paycheck.

Maybe I'm missing out on the problem b/c I have never been an employer.

We, as employers, are already required to deduct, and pay, their taxes for them. I really have no problem doing this because I know the government is just trying to be sure that they get their money and not relying on citizens to be responsible for insuring they pay their taxes. But, if the citizens aren't responsible to look after their own interests, why should I be required to look after it for them?

Sometimes, I'm required, by court order, to deduct for student loan payments and pay those for the employee. Other times, I'm required, by court order, to deduct for child support payments and pay those for the employee. I do have a problem with this. First, it's an inconvenience to me (and costly). It takes my time (which is non-reimbursable) and it costs me for the additional checks, envelopes, and stamps.

If the employee has faulted on payments to other entities, those entities should go after them to get payment. I shouldn't, as an employer, be legally bound to get involved in their personal lives. And now, Obama wants me to be responsible to insure they take care of themselves after they decide to not work anymore.

But mostly, it's a pain in the "REAR".

[quash]

But mostly, it's a pain in the @ss.

No doubt. Public policy says the burden of different responsibilities has to be spread.

It may be a slight pain to deduct for child support. It's a bigger pain to pay welfare benefits to the children of deadbeat dads. Or to fire a deadbeat and then hire and train his replacement.

I hear what y'all are saying, but on balance it fails to meet my de minimis for hassle. Even a private retirement account could have direct deposit hassles. Our SEP plan requires to extra checks to be cut.

Tax policy always has consequences. Tax avoidance tends to have more. And so it goes.

[Texas Golfer]

No doubt. Public policy says the burden of different responsibilities has to be spread.

It may be a slight pain to deduct for child support. It's a bigger pain to pay welfare benefits to the children of deadbeat dads. Or to fire a deadbeat and then hire and train his replacement.

I hear what y'all are saying, but on balance it fails to meet my de minimis for hassle. Even a private retirement account could have direct deposit hassles. Our SEP plan requires to extra checks to be cut.

Tax policy always has consequences. Tax avoidance tends to have more. And so it goes.

I understand why the government wants me to deduct from the employee's pay to ensure they get paid. I understand why the loan companies have the Attorney General's office order me to get what they are due. I understand why the exes of deadbeat dads have the AG order me to get what they are due. I understand all that. It's easier, for them, to do that. It's cheaper, doesn't cost them anything, for it to be done this way.

But it costs me. Not only in non-reembursable time, but it costs me in supplies and materials. It also costs me because I have lost very valuable employees who didn't want their paychecks depreciated any more than it already was. They may not have been good people but they were good employees.

Nobody cares about employers. Certainly, not the government nor Obama who wants to place further burdens on employers of small businesses in the name of politics.